Backing Up–the Holy Grail of Horsemanship?
10. Oct, 2009 
20 Comments
Can I ask what the huge deal is with Natural Horsemanship and backing up? To hear the clinicians and adherents talk about it, you’d think backing up was the holy grail.
Now, I know that this is an important behavior. We all need our horses to back up from time to time. In foxhunting, for example it is a matter of safety and protocol to be able to back instantly and safely in an instant. That’s the only discipline I know anything about, so it’s all I can speak to with a modicum of authority.
I also know that the muscle memory involved in learning to back is important for establishing softness from the poll, through the neck, withers, shoulders, back and all the way to the hindquarters. I know that it trains the hind legs to come under and engage. I understand all that.
What I don’t understand is the repeated practice of backing up on the ground every day as if a horse who doesn’t back at the speed of light is a failure as a horse. I also fail to comprehend why a horse has to give to a shaking rope in his face. Softer, more mindful cues to back certainly wouldn’t hurt, and may even contribute to the ease of communication between horse and rider.
Can someone please explain the benefits to me?
© 2009 enlightened horsemanship through touch and Kim Cox Carneal
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Not to be glib, but it’s about control (and not in a good way). It’s a trick that they like to use as some sort of measurement of how great they are with their training.
A fellow horse acquaintance was always on me about backing my horses. Her song: “I always back my horse before I get off….” blah blah blah… but she couldn’t take the correct lead of the canter – and most often couldn’t get canter at all. Overall, her horses were ill behaved brats who bordered on dangerous.
The entire training is the measurement of a trainer or rider. But some people like to have a trick as it makes them feel good about themselves.
You caught me on a cynical week.
I don’t think you are being especially cynical. When I teach liberty ground work, I teach how to move the horse toward you, away from you, and forward. I have not been able to teach the “back-up” to any student’s horses, because their horses have been “backed up” as punishement — and liberty work is something else.
I know SO MANY horses, that if they can’t get it right the first couple of times, they start backing-up — running backwards, actually, as if to say “ok I know its coming….”
sad, really. backing is an art.
like walking. how many horses do you know who can really REALLY walk well?
B
Control….control….control. How high can I make you jump? For what???? I am so tired of wannabe trainers who don’t know shit from shinola!!! How’s that? Insensitivity! What is really important? When I think about what so many horses have to endure, my stomach aches.
B you reminded me of a very bad situation where the horse would back up so fast that it turned into a rear and the horse would flip over. Yes, it was punishment on the part of the rider, and then developed into a fear reaction by the horse.
Backing up is a very dominant requrest if you are the one who asks for the backing – I do it but very little and always then immediately go forward as the reward.
With the TB’s pelvic recovery though he does have to be backed slowly for a few steps as a way to get him to step up with the hind that he is dragging. Slowly and not much though.
Bonnitta,
I don’t know many horses who can really walk well. I know some trainers who refuse to allow their students to back up a horse, saying that it inhibits forward momentum, physically and mentally.
Gosh you guys, these are great, thought-provoking responses. I’m learning!
Kim, I got a kick out your question, and the great responses. Me and my horses, we just trail ride. Rather simple, I know. Forward. Not backwards. We’ll back up when opening a gate, not for training or punishment, just the job that needs to be done because I’m too lazy to get down, and it’s good practice for the finer skills that we may need to use… next time we approach a gate. A practical craft, so to say. Boy, I sound very simple here, but that’s it, it’s a simple and practical maneuver. Tell you what, I have 17 horse on pasture outside my kitchen window that I watch quite regularly (that’s why we have no TV). I’ve NEVER seen one back up out there except when stuck in a human made obstacle. They’ll dodge out of the way from a grouchy mare, perhaps, but they won’t back up for her… So our need as humans to train and repeat over and over and over for our horse to back? Yup, control.
gg
Gin
You are right about one thing for sure: horses don’t back up naturally. This definitely lends credence to the theory about it’s being about control. There are those (I have a facebook friend who has just gotten into NH who would agree with this) that control is a good thing. I guess everything can go too far.
Under saddle, backing up is absolutely necessary for opening gates, as you mention, unless the horse and rider have some special skill at levitation. I don’t get down unless it’s unplanned, because getting back up on any horse when you’re only 5′ tall is a challenge, so the skill of opening gates in any territory is a must. Unfortunately, my anxiety about doing it well transfers to the horse, and we end up see-sawing around in a highly comical but frustrating way.
In foxhunting, backing up is an absolute must-have skill. You must be able to do it on a dime, in rough conditions, in the blink of an eye. If you can’t you can’t hunt. Maybe this is one reason to have the skill down pat. But then again, maybe we shouldn’t foxhunt, so who knows?
I teach backing very early on to my youngsters, and do quite a bit of it. I use clicker training with a lot of my training, and I want the horse to understand that goodies come his way only when he’s out of my space.
I would never use it as a punishment, though.
I also don’t like the way most natural horse trainers teach it, with the rope wiggling and escalating pressure until you’re popping the horse in the chin with the snap on the lead rope. I think teaching this way is quite rude—at the beginning, the horse honestly has no idea what the trainer is asking, and then they go popping him in the chin. I’d learn to back up to, but not because I really wanted to.
Alexandra Kurland likes to say that for every behavior, you must teach an opposite behavior. If you teach backing, you also need to teach going forward. If you teach a cue for heads down, you also need a way to ask the horse to bring his head back up. And so on. I think backing is good to work on, but in moderation.
Mary H.
http://stalecheerios.com/blog
I know for actual ranch work on cattle, you want a horse that can back up quickly if you accidentally get stuck in a tight spot (where forward or sideways is not an option!) and those horns are coming mighty close. You want to save your horse. A horse that can back away at light speed is a horse that is less likely to get gored. IMO the backing up at light speed should be only enough to get out of danger, not across the arena.
In Dressage, I’ve used reinback (just a few steps) occasionally to set the horse up for a better transition: sometimes the horse gets it’s butt more ‘under’ himself through reinback, and sometimes it’s a body memory reminder of how that rear engine needs to be set up. When you back up in dressage, it’s a round frame, with lifted back, and somewhat tucked rear. For some horses it turns the light on: Oh yeah, this is the frame I’m supposed to work in!
Never a punishment.
I like how you use an initial capital for Dressage.
Of course muscle memory plays a huge role in training–and I understand fully how important it is to come up under and tuck. Lights on please!
Mary
I know next to nothing about Clicker Training, except that my friend Sandy uses it with great results. I’m going to have to make a study of your blog!
The NH way of backing is not so good for another reason: while he’s trying to figure out what you are asking, the horse raises his head. In most mammals, a high head carriage, even temporary, begins the cascade of “fight or flight” reactions in the sympathetic nervous system. That’s not what we want. When this begins, we lose the power of the thinking horse and get only reaction.
Please do read my blog, I’d love for you to.
My favorite part about clicker training is that I can tell the horse exactly what I want. Once the horse catches on to the game, learning can progress very rapidly.
Also, the horse gets to experiment, offer behaviors, and actively participate in the learning process, instead of always being told what to do. So much of the learning process in traditional horse training (pressure/release and negative reinforcement type systems) is built around constantly telling the horse what not to do and correcting the horse.
Here’s a great video I found just this afternoon. No pressure, just clicker and she uses shaping to teach the horse to stand on the pedestal in under 3 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WZL8RQj24
This philosophy of many clicker trainers is that by starting with small approximations, we can try to always set the animal up for success. Such as in this brilliant clip from English dog trainer Kay Laurence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WZL8RQj24
(This is perhaps one of my favorite youtube videos ever.)
Mary
Mary
While I”m traveling, I have several layovers. I can think of nothing better than to read about clicker training in your blog. I also need more information on basic reinforcement/learning psychology and your are definitely the go-to person for that!
I watched the horse clicker training video and enjoyed it very much. It appears that clicker training and TTouch have much in common in terms of allowing the horse the necessary time to pause and think about what is being asked without pressure, and an immediate reward for getting it right. I like how the task automatically breaks itself down into tiny chunks.
My question for you is this: What do you do when the horse is not food-motivated or cannot have treats? What are the other modes of reward in clicker training?
Obviously, my preference is for physical contact.
The Kay Lawrence video link was not there. The link you provided was for the horse video again. When I have time I will hunt it down.
Many thanks for starting this discussion and pointing me again in the direction of clicker training, which I want to learn more about.
Sorry for the wrong link. Try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP7Soem31qg
These are both good introductory resources:
http://www.theclickercenter.com/guide/index.html
http://equineclickertraining.com/training/four_quadrants.htm
The second link is a great article on operant conditioning and how some clicker trainers apply it to horse training. It’s lengthy, and a bit scientific, but it an interesting read, if you have the time.
(I also have some more resources listed here on my site:http://stalecheerios.com/index.php?id=2 )
Another similarity I see between clicker training and the limited amount I know about ttouch is the emphasis on balance and body awareness. Alexandra Kurland has recently been teaching something called microshaping–where she can isolate and shape tiny muscle movements, such as asking a horse to lift their back or tighten belly muscles.
The essence of clicker training is positive reinforcement. So, you want to find something positive the horse is really eager to work for, doesn’t necessarily have to be food. Foals are usually itchy, but not big on treats. Using a brief scratching on the neck or withers can be very reinforcing as a reward.
Frankly, I have yet to meet an older horse who was not food motivated. That said, some horses like some types of treats a lot more than others. Many trainers use the horse’s daily ration of grain, giving a teaspoon sized amount for each correct response. Hay stretcher pellets seem to be another popular choice. I buy horse treats that I break into small pieces, about the size of a jelly bean or so.
The bigger issue is insulin resistant horses, chubby ponies, and others who might already be on a no grain diet and who don’t need any extra sugar/calories. I’ve heard of people using hay cubes, cucumbers, lettuce, alfalfa cubes, celery, and pretzels. Hay pellets are generally safe for most horses.
The essential thing for successful clicker training is teaching the horse good food manners form the beginning. The link I gave you above to Alexandra Kurland’s the clicker center website has some good info on this.
Many people just incorporate clicker training into their current training program. Adding a “yes” signal followed by a reward can really speed up training. I’ve found it eliminates most of my need for escalating pressure. If I give a small pressure cue, then reward even a tiny try, the horse begins offering more. Makes for very soft and light horses. For instance, when teaching something on the ground like hindquarter yields or backing from pressure on the chest, I never have to go above a tiny amount of pressure on the skin.
Mary
Hmm, interesting responses. I have a green horse who I sought help in training with a very capable NH trainer. This trainer has a Parelli background but I know he also is open to other trainers methods. Backing a horse is one of the Parelli “7 games” it is NOT a punishment, it is used to move the feet and engage the mind. Ideally, when your horse understands the cue, you only have to stand in front of him and gently wiggle the end of the lead shank to send him backwards. And I do not mean flying backwards, I mean walking calmly back with his head relaxed.
In the beginning, the cues may have to be given “loudly” including a bump from the clip on the chin but you NEVER just start off asking in this way. You start by wiggling your finger, then wiggle the end of the lead, then wave the lead back and forth and if you have to smoothly wave the lead strong enough to bump with the clip for him to get it, you do. And as soon as the horse takes a step back you STOP asking. My horse is at the stage now where I rarely have to ask “loudly” and loves this game, especially when we do it two steps back – two steps forward. It’s like a little dance.
I also always use backing to remind him about “personal space”. When leading, he is not to walk up on me or rush past me. All I have to do now when leading him if he forgets and does this is gently wiggle the lead and he now slows down to a respectful distance. It’s not just a matter of control, it’s also for personal safety. How many times have you seen someone leading a horse that is crowding them and pushing them around. That is rude behavior and dangerous. Not acceptable.
Even under saddle, we back to move the feet to engage the mind and to supple the body. It’s not by hauling on the horses’ mouth and going backwards as fast as you can but getting the horse to follow the cues for as many steps as you request. This is how I was trained in all my years of competing in Dressage, Hunters and Hunt Seat Equitation, it is no different to train a horse with natural horsemanship to get the same results now.
If it doesn’t look feel like you are “playing” with your horse, then maybe you need to reevaluate what you are doing and why.
Hi Mary! Thanks for sharing the video! I can definitely see the benefit of using your method for a very sensitive horse, as the mare in your video proved. I owned a OTTB mare years ago who was very distrustful and spooky and she required the patience and gentle approach you demonstrate there.
I like that you say you are experimenting with your training. It’s always great when you meet other creative horsemen who take what they learn and are flexible enough to mold the training around an individual horses’ personality. I can’t adhere to one and only one method of training. I like to see what’s out there and what works for me and my horse.
The horse I am working with now is not a good candidate for treat rewards in his training. He’s very food motivated and was spoiled with treats by his previous owner. Hand feeding him treats is too big a distraction for him so I eliminated it from his program. It was the first step in my retraining him and made a definite difference. He’s also a very non-reactive fellow and I find the phases of teaching him the Parelli games is what got and kept his attention.
My trainer always stresses giving the horse every chance to “get it” before it has to be escalated. In the beginning when he was learning to back, my trainer would hold his halter below the chin knot, then apply touch pressure on his shoulder while gently wiggling the halter. Any backward movement was rewarded with a rub on the shoulder. Eventually, the horse would back using either cue, the halter wiggle or finger touch. Then he would stand in front and give the finger cue with a slight halter wiggle. My horse knew immediately what to do and stepped back. I’ve never seen Parelli break the lesson down like that for the horse but I liked that my trainer did it that way.
There are so many things to learn in the ways of training horses. And it’s so cool that we can share them in these posts!
Solitairemare–
I was a die-hard parelli fan for a long time before finding clicker training. I still use many of the parelli exercises in my training, but I train them my own way. I have become increasingly uncomfortable with the parelli concept of phases.
“In the beginning, the cues may have to be given “loudly” including a bump from the clip on the chin but you NEVER just start off asking in this way.”
The horse learns very quickly that the little wiggle of the finger means he should back, and a competent trainer only has to use the extreme pressure a few times. My concern is this puts the animal in situations where the animal does not understand how it can be successful from the get go.
At the beginning, the horse does not understand the little wiggle, which means the trainer has to escalate the pressure in order to get the horse to move.
The trainer starts with a little wiggle, but he’s not taught the horse what that little wiggle means. What if instead, we could teach the horse to respond to the tiniest little wiggle without ever having to escalate to higher pressure?
This is where I am experimenting now with my training, by using positive reinforcement (and clicker training) to teach pressure cues instead of pressure/release and escalating phases. I start with the light cues we all eventually want and set the horse up to succeed. Then I make sure I reward every try and approximation, and gradually built up the behavior from there. One of the mares I’m currently working with does beautiful hindquarter yields and yo-yo game at liberty. Both of these behaviors were taught at liberty and I never had to escalate my cues beyond a light touch to the skin or soft wiggle of my finger.
You might be interested in some of the videos I’m working on now, which demonstrate how to teach the parelli games at liberty without the use of escalating pressure or phases. The first one, friendly game, is here: http://vimeo.com/6857794.
I should have gone a bit slower, the mare is more tense than I would have liked. The training is a learning process for both of us.
Mary